Anti-Russian Moods in Armenia have their Reasons, however, it doesn’t Allow to Appear against Russia: Norat Ter-Grigoryants
Interview with Lieutenant-General Norat Ter Grigoryants, former head of the general staff of Armenia (1992-1995) and Acting Defense Minister (1993).
What kind of a policy do you anticipate from Russia, where you’re currently living?
I’m not against the policy Russia generally pursues, however, I’m against its selling armaments to Azerbaijan. Of course, Russia has the right to sell armaments out of commercial purposes. Armenia also receives armaments from Russia. However, Armenia is in the position of defense, it doesn’t attack and doesn’t have the intention to. And it turns out, that Russian armaments are being sold to an aggressor country, which attacks. As for the policy, it should be decided by the heads of the countries, cooperate with each other, policy is conditioned by the quality of their work, as for the nuance and policy of Mr. Putin, I can’t say, as I’m not in that policy. I may say why Russia develops Northern route through the territory of Azerbaijan, Dagestan from Iran. Why wasn’t it possible to exit Armenia through Iran and Nakhchivan? There is a route through the territory of Tbilisi and Abkhazia, a shorter one. What a policy is that? Why do they cooperate with Turkey? Turkey is a state committing Genocide.
Erdogan is a rather foxy international figure, he made refugees, sent them to Europe. I once also said that there are Islamists among the refugees as well, and it’s not excluded that Tukey will organize genocide for Europe as well, who knows? And now “My friend, Volodya, Volodya.” He’s very sly. I don’t understand, I can’t explain that policy. It’s difficult to say. Probably, Russia’s president establishes that union to settle the Armenian Cause by using that rapprochement—the blockade, NK conflict, probably, this is the purpose. I don’t know.
Deep anti-Russian moods escalate in Armenia, in particular, after the April war, when delay of the armaments supply by USD 200 million was added to the existent discontent on selling of Russian armaments. Why? In your opinion, are these moods justified?
It’s an interesting question and rather politicized. You’re right, as you know better from the society’s moods. In this case people’s moods or complaints are developing under negative phenomena by this or that country. People see that. Then, added to this, supply of armaments to be provided by USD 200 million loan, you can’t cheat people, they aren’t robots, the Armenian nation is a civilized, conscious nation, it properly assesses the situation. If they say they’re against, this means they have certain reasons.
However, here fraud is available as well.
Let me inform, what I know and heard. After the Karabakh war I worked in CSTO upon the proposal of Russian Defense Minister, and documents were being prepared there regarding CSTO member countries. It’s enshrined in one of the documents, that armaments with internal prices are being sold to CSTO member countries. If for the Russian army the rifle costs 1 ruble, then for the Armenian army it costs 1 ruble as well, as for the Azerbaijani army—10 rubles. Thus, they were to buy some armaments by those 200 million.
If they asked me, I’d advise to buy contemporary electronic countermeasures, multiple rocket system, I’d buy contemporary means of communication and good unmanned aerial vehicles. Thus, I’d buy armaments, which would allow defending ourselves, however, it would allow to counterattack the adversary, i.e. the weapon is needed not only for the defense, but also for attack, if necessary. Claims are heard that Russian 102nd military base should be withdrawn from Armenia. Many delivered remarks in this regard. That base has been established upon my proposal. Levon Ter-Petrosyan, Vazgen Sargsyan, Vahan Shirkhanyan witnessed that I proposed not to allow the Russian division withdraw from Gyumri, so that Russia didn’t withdraw, as exits of different Russian divisions from Georgia and Azerbaijan were anticipated, thus, it turned out that Russia was withdrawing, so I insisted that we’re not involved in NATO, in Warsaw agreement, Armenia is an independent country, Azerbaijan attacks, and its purpose is not only Karabakh, but Zangezur, annexation to Nakhchivan and attack towards Yerevan, i.e. we needed shelter from aggressive Turkish and Azerbaijani states, which may pass the border and start to destroy Armenia.
Azerbaijan had a few dozen divisions, and Armenia had neither an army, nor it was a member country to any union, CSTO hasn’t been established then, thus, we established it and I was appointed head of committee. That union was meant for Russia’s defense on CIS external borders, however, after some time, when Medvedev was Russia’s president, he visited Armenia and the formulation changed—provide not only Russia’s, but also Armenia’s security, in cooperation with Armenian Armed Forces.
This base existed and yet will exist for more 49 years, thus, I qualify claims for withdrawing the base as dangerous. Discontent emerges out of various reasons. However, it won’t allow appearing against Russia, as it’s an extremely dangerous phenomenon, as with their religious, political ties, Armenians have always been close to Russian people and are in hostile neighborhood.
Yes, Russia made mistakes, as first and foremost, it thinks of itself, however, mistakes have been made by Armenian authorities as well, i.e. some mistakes of Russia don’t allow it doing this, and our mistakes—doing that. In this region we have friendly ties with Russia only, and now should we act against Russia? Here you’ll be destroyed not physically, but appearing in an environment, where you don’t have partners. I’m against disruption of relations with Russia. If Russia withdraws from Transcaucasia, Armenia will stay alone in the hostile neighborhood—Turkey is hostile, Azerbaijan is hostile, Georgia isn’t hostile, but it contributes to Armenia’s blockade. Iran is a proper country relations with which are good.
If Russia needs Armenia to provide its presence in the South Caucasus, then for the Armenian society reasons should be eliminated, which raise anti-Russian moods. Do you agree?
We say that Russia needs Armenia’s presence in this region, maybe Russia doesn’t need Armenia. Each country needs the other, depending on the purpose—economic, political. In this case we’re a country, which supports strengthening of Russia’s security, and whether Russia needs it or not, we need to ask themselves, however, we accept ourselves like that, maybe Russia as well, otherwise CSTO wouldn’t exist. The policy inside, in Armenia, should be changed, we should strive to economic development and change foreign policy as well, by establishing friendly ties in the region even with hostile countries.
By Armine Vardanyan
