“People in Brussels were Really Looking Forward to See Electoral Reforms Happening and This will Give a Lot of Hope and Energy to the Process”

Interview with Diogo Pinto, Director of European Friends of Armenia (EuFoA).

Mr. Pinto you have been appointed as a Director of European Friends of Armenia recently, thus, it’s interesting to know your plans as a Director of this organization. To your mind what will be the main challenge for you at this difficult period in Armenia-EU relations?

Let me try to answer connecting them, as the plans are connected to the challenges, of course. You said that these are difficult times, in terms of the relations between the EU and Armenia. I think it’s also frank to say, that there were even harder times. So, I think in terms of hardship we’ve been at the top and now we’re getting to a better situation. I’ve heard from both the Armenian authorities and the EU officials that negotiations on the new legal framework are going quite well. This doesn’t mean of course, that the new agreement will be signed next week.

These things take time, and definitely there would be some obstacles that we’ll have to deal with, but I observed very positive feelings on both sides, which is good and motivating. What is important to understand now is that where the challenges come up. Both Armenia and the EU are going through intensive crisis. This crisis have different aspects, there are economic issues that have contributed to this, there are social issues on both sides in a way that it’s an important moment in terms of both for the EU and Armenia to think about the future and what needs to change in order to be successful in their own strategies.

I think for the European Friends of Armenia we’re being an organization that tries to build bridges between the two, we cannot ignore that the situation is as it is on both sides. Let’s be very honest. Armenia has choices to make, which are difficult choices. You know there was a moment, when it seemed that the situation was very black and white. I think, fortunately, there is the situation now, when we are discussing shades of gray. That’s better, but they are still difficult choices. And these are choices because they are being made at a time of crisis and are more difficult choices. The same thing for the EU.

I think there is no doubt for anyone that the EU wants to develop further relations with Armenia, but again there are choices that need to be made from the EU side. Does the European Commission want to progress on the relations with Armenia in spite of Armenian membership to the Customs Union, EEU or it wants to do it in all the areas that  don’t cover by this membership?

These choices need to be made. This is a choice that the Commission will have to make for itself. But then the EU is a very complex ‘animal,’ it’s not only the negotiators that are in front of the Armenian authorities that exist decisions, the Parliament have to give its approval and the 28 member states will have to give answer, their approval to it. And each member state should answer in itself in difficult moments. So, it’s a very complex situation.

We have to live with this as an organization, we have to be smart about it. So I would say that our main challenge is, indeed, to be smart, to figure out the ways of promoting this relationship between Armenia and the EU without getting to the point where pressure is so big, that it breaks up to identify the areas, where things can be done faster and results can be shown and these can be very soft areas, controlling changes, people to people contacts and so forth. But answer not losing track of the long-term perspective, which is to have a relationship that is transformative. Where the Armenian society, the Armenian state, infrastructure is influenced positively by the EU experience. But at the same time where the EU is able to benefit fully from the contributions of Armenia to make it a richer and more successful union.

This is a marathon. I’ve been telling my colleagues, and I’ve been telling the board of the organization that we all need to be patient, this isn’t a sprint, it’s not going to be needless or relevant to have big success in the next few weeks, throwing fireworks and celebrating small things, this is something that we’re going to be patient, persistent and it’ll take a long time. I’m quite confident and I think I have the energy enough and I hope I’ll be able to contaminate others with my energy to make this a success story. These are plans we’re making and are going in this direction.

Let me be more concrete in terms of our plans. First and foremost, our priority will be the successful achievement of negotiations between the EU and Armenia for new legal frames for this cooperation. There are many aspects and I don’t want to go into details right now but there is no need in that choice. There are many aspects of it, one that is particularly important for us is everything that has to do with visa liberalization. Ultimately the objective is to have visa liberalization for Armenian citizens travelling to the EU. It’s going to take time.

There are serious obstacles that we need to overcome and there is a need for a lot of work being done here in Armenia in order to make sure that this is going to be possible. But we are confident that this is possible and that it’ll come sooner or later. This needs a lot of devotion from both sides, but especially in this case from the Armenian side. So we’ll try to promote this. This is very important for us. The second thing is that of course we’ll try to represent Armenia in Europe in a positive way. There are a lot of positive amazing stories about Armenia. We don’t always have to tell only the negative side of things. And I’m not saying this in order to highlight that there are problems and they need to be addressed. We’re not going to be in the business of masking up the difficulties, but there are amazing and beautiful stories from Armenia and we want to tell those stories, we want to make sure that these stories are told to the Europeans and they learn about what Armenia really is.

We’ll keep bringing Europeans to Armenia and to visit, to experience what are these new beautiful stories about Armenia. Talking about decision-makers, politicians, we’re talking about leaders of the civil society organizations, journalists, who can tell, reproduce the stories then. We’re also willing to talk about the most traditional Armenian topics –recognition of the Armenian Genocide, issues around NK. So we want to do that we’re on the Armenian side, without any doubt and with our all hearts. But we want to do it smartly.

We want to communicate things in a way that Europeans understand. There are a lot of things, I always tell this, there are lots of things about Europe that people in Armenia don’t understand. There are a lot of things about Armenia that people in Europe don’t understand, so we need to work on communication. It’s not about a change in the story, it’s about a change in the way you tell the story, so that people can relate to that. I’ll give you an example. I think that everything around the Aurora Prize initiative is a really beautiful way of telling the story about the Armenian Genocide. We want to use more of these examples. And when it comes to NK we’ll keep working as we have done in the past to make sure that people understand in Europe what the situation is.

Beyond legal discussions that have to be taken and political negotiations that are going on between the interested parties, that’s not my job. My job is to make sure that people in Europe understand what the situation of these people is, why they want this, why they should be independent and, hopefully, the extra support of more people in Europe for this idea. The first concern about NK is, of course, security of the people living in that territory. The second one is to move on with the political debate so that we can obtain recognition of the full independence of NKR. These are the plans. I’m sure we’ll have to change them along the way, but we’re ready for that.

3 years ago Armenia announced on joining Russia-led Eurasian Economic Union (EEU) in case, when negotiations with the EU around the Association Agreement (AA) and Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Area (DCFTA) were about to be accomplished. What obstacles do you observe now? Have the sides learned lessons from the previous experience?

I hope so. I have the impression, that yes, people have learnt. I think this is  a bit like a couple, who are much in trouble, but, at the same time, they fight for some things, and at a certain point they just break up. And then later on, they realize that they still love each other. I think the story about the EU and Armenia is a bit the same. I think that the love was always there, there was a circumstance where maybe both sides weren’t ready to cope with, but there is willingness now to overcome that. I mean there are definitely some obstacles. We need to understand one thing: it’s the first time that the EU is negotiating this kind of an agreement with a country that is member of another similar union. Nobody knows exactly how to do this.

Armenia is being a kind of a pioneer in this way. So the obstacles will be there and they will have to be overcome. I feel there is willingness on both sides to overcome whatever obstacles that will appear. And I’m sure, that maybe what lacked in 2013 was this very decisive willingness to do it. I think people have jumped too fast into conclusions, made statements in public that then was difficult to go back and remove them and a situation just became imminent maybe without it. Years later, as you said, both sides have learned some lessons and I think they’ll take it in a different way now, these negotiations. Let’s be very honest, there are some difficulties that will have to be addressed and we know what the difficulties are. There are issues on the Armenian side the issue of security of course, is very important. The EU is very reluctant in getting involved in process, where it’s not an official party.

There will be difficulties there, when it comes to the rule of law in Armenia. The agreement yesterday between the political parties regarding electoral reforms, it’s a really important step forward. I’m sure that people in Brussels were really looking forward to see this happening and this will give a lot of hope and energy to the process, because it shows that when Armenian parties want, they can make agreement. And if this logic is applied to other areas, where there are perceived difficulties by the EU , this gives a lot of hope. And I’m really excited in Yerevan when this is happening. These difficulties can be overcome and I think there is a huge and real sincere will on both sides to move forward to that.

You have mentioned the most important point for Armenia, i.e. security. It’s interesting to know what may the EU propose to Armenia on account of the fact that the EU isn’t a security guarantying union? However, what can be done to that end?

To be honest I cannot speak on behalf of the EU, of course. It’s a very sensitive issue, whatever anyone says might be proven wrong  very fast, now what I would think that the EU can contribute, when it comes to that is on the trust building measures that are really needed at this time. You said it correctly the EU isn’t a security operator. It’s not an actor in that field. There are debates even in the EU, if it should become or not, but the EU is not that. I don’t think that the EU could be the security insurer. The EU has a lot of experience in other regions of the world, namely in Europe, in conflicts that are in a way similar to the one we’re talking about.

And this experience can be put at the service of NK situation, people to people contact, regardless of the legal recognition of the state, the recognition that people live there, and these people are entitled to human rights and security, as it’s an important human right. The EU could act more, it’s very difficult. It’s very complicated in case of Azerbaijan’s posture.The EU can do more on the humanitarian level, on the infrastructure level, to support for the institution and the rights to be insured on a support, so he hope the EU will take its responsibilities in those fields.

There are concerns in Armenia that this time again Armenia won’t sign the agreement with the EU. What do you think, is Armenia free in negotiations with the EU?

Armenia is an independent state and it has a Government and has a position, that has state institutions, I don’t see why would Armenia be independent enough to do that. I know what you mean, but I think that anyone in either side of the negotiations is waiting or seeking for a third party’s permission to conclude agreements. Armenia has responsibility, as a member of EEU, it has made commitments, and of course, these commitments need to be respected. So, I would assume that Armenian negotiators when they are negotiating with the EU, they are aware of these limitations and will make sure that you understand that maybe there are some things that cannot be done because of these commitments of Armenia. This is what happens in any negotiations among two sides. In the international scene it’s very difficult to find one situation, where the two sides, or one of those sides, doesn’t have any prior commitments, everyone has them and those need to be respected, of course. I don’t think it’s a matter of independence. It’s a matter of exerting smart negotiation, that allows for the best common ground to be found.

When will the sides be able to finalize the agreement?

It’s a very difficult question. It’s a bit like a future guessing. In my conversations with different people I have heard different timelines. So the negotiations started in December of the last year, then no deadlines, so I’ll give you my wish for thinking. I would say that nothing will happen before summer next year, but it would be possible to sign something by that. It depends on what’s going to happen. On the EU side. I think the biggest obstacle is bureaucracy, things, they are slow. On the Armenian side there are some benchmarks that we need to be aware of, of course, very important elections are coming up in spring next year. If everything goes well, I think that would give hope for a signature to be possible soon after that.

By Araks Martirosyan